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The Choir’s chief lyricist/drummer Steve Hindalong and saxophone player/manager Dan Michaels spoke with the Phantom Tollbooth’s Michial Farmer at Cornerstone Festival 2000.

City on a Hill
At the Foot of the Cross
Flap Your Wings
Looking Back, Advice
Production Credits
Writing
 

City on a Hill
Tollbooth: You’re working on this project called City on a Hill for Essential Records. How did this come about? Were you looking to do another worship record, or did Essential approach you about it?

Steve Hindalong: I’ve wanted to do more worship music ever since Derri and I worked on At the Foot of the Cross several years ago. That was very fulfilling for us, artistically and spiritually, and so I’ve been waiting for an opportunity. And so I pursued Essential because they had a really good bunch of bands that I thought would be great to do a project with. They were very receptive immediately, but it took over a year to get it to happen. Derri (Daugherty, also of The Choir) engineered it, and we worked together on it. Jars of Clay’s on there….Caedmon’s Call….Sixpence None the Richer….FFH….Third Day….Sonic Flood. I’m thrilled with the way it turned out.

Tollbooth: How is it different from the At the Foot of the Cross series?

Steve Hindalong: It’s a little more pop-oriented. It’s a little more radio-friendly, more song-oriented but it’s definitely got that ethereal quality that At the Foot of the Cross had. There’s a lot of commonality between those projects. But all the bands, pretty much, are in their third album, at the top of their career. It’s definitely a higher profile thing. What’s unique about it, as compared to other compilation worship albums, is that it’s not a Sixpence song, and a Third Day song, and a Jars of Clay. There’s a lot of intermingling of artists.

Tollbooth: Sort of like At the Foot of the Cross?

Hindalong: Yeah! We blended the artists, and so you have Dan Haseltine from Jars singing a duet with Leigh from Sixpence. You have Mac from Third Day singing with Cliff and Danielle from Caedmon’s Call. It’s a real community feel, and a lot of the same musicians you know, cross-pollination or whatever. You come up with something very unique that way.

At the Foot of the Cross
Tollbooth: What was the difference between the production and recording of City on a Hill and At the Foot of the Cross?

Hindalong: At the Foot of the Cross was Derri and I as far as musicians, and maybe a couple other players. So we could create the whole thing. We brought people in to sing. And we had written pretty much all the songs with a couple other people. Whereas this one, I tried to really involve the artists creatively so they had ownership. They wrote some of the songs, and I used them as players

Tollbooth: Are you planning on making a third At the Foot of the Cross album? I’ve heard it was planned from the beginning to be a trilogy.

Hindalong: We had began to envision it that way, but it didn’t have enough commercial success for a label to be interested. The only thing that’s stopped us from doing a third one is the interest and funds.

The first one was very broad: Father, Son, Spirit. The second one was very specific: Lent; the crucifixion of Christ. The third one would be focused on everything that happened after the death: the Resurrection, the Ascension, the Holy Spirit. More triumphant of an album. I was really excited about it, and, who knows? If, if City on a Hill has enough visibility, and it’s successful, maybe I’ll be able to do whatever I want, in which case, we would definitely do a third one.

Flap Your Wings
Tollbooth: What makes Flap Your Wings, the new Choir album, different from the past albums?

Hindalong: We did it faster than we’ve ever done a project, and it came easier than anything we’ve ever done. It seems to get easier. I said that about Free Flying Soul, too. I said, “This is the easiest album we’ve ever made,” because it took six weeks, which is half the time any other record had taken. But this one only took two weekends. And we like it. I think that so far, it’s all our favorite record. It’s too early to make such a statement, but I really enjoy it. I usually take forever to write lyrics and really stress over it. I didn’t have time. We were very busy. We walked into the studio, and Tim flew out from L.A., and I wrote six of the lyrics in two days. We used two songs from Derri’s solo record, and then Tim (Chandler) came out another weekend and we wrote the rest of the songs. At this point in our careers, we’re not trying to prove anything. We’re not trying to win a new audience. We’re not thinking about radio. We’re just trying to enjoy ourselves….express how we feel at that moment in time. Very little pressure. We had no record label. Total indie. So no pressure, you know? We just pleased ourselves.

Another thing that’s different about it: there’s no drum set on the album. I only set up things on the floor, and banged on things: a low drum, a snare drum, I’d bang on a piece of brass or whatever. Derri’s studio’s really small now. He’s in his house, so it wasn’t really big enough to set up a drum kit. So that’s something very different.

Tim Chandler had a lot more creative input than he’s ever had before. He came out very inspired, had a lot of chord progressions to contribute. Four of the songs came through him. He even played a lot of electric guitars, so it’s got his signature on it more than any other album.

Tollbooth: Are you planning on shopping Flap Your Wings to a label at all, or are you maintaining complete independence?

Dan Michaels: No, the goal on this record was just to create it and release it independently. I’ve been working at a label for many years now, so I can figure out how to handle the marketing part of it, through the Internet, through media and radio and everything. It’s available on the website and if we play a live show, like here at Cornerstone. It is coming out through Ministry Music’s Resolve Records imprint, which is Diamante Distribution, later on in September. The goal in this was to be sure we kept the masters, kept ownership.

Tollbooth: I’ve noticed that you (Dan) wrote a lyric on the new album, “Hey Gene,” which is obviously about Gene Eugene. Do you write a lot of lyrics?

Michaels: Oh, no. I can barely put sentences together often enough. At Gene’s funeral, I had written a little poem, a little eulogy, and read it at his burial. Steve and I were talking on the phone when he was working on the lyric, and I said, “If you need any help, I did write some stuff about Gene in this eulogy,” and he picked some ideas out of there and put it into good poetry.

Tollbooth: Derri also wrote a song on the new album. I’d ask him about it, but he isn’t here. Does he write a lot? Is he going to be featured as a lyricist on upcoming Choir records?

Hindalong: Derri wrote all the lyrics on the first album, Voices in Shadows, and he has never written any lyrics since for The Choir. It’s something I’ve always been disappointed in. I started doing that early on, and he just kind of let me take that over. He wrote some lyrics on a solo record that he started but hasn’t yet finished and the song “Mercy Lives Here” was my favorite on there. It’s a fantastic song, and it makes me all the more disappointed that he didn’t write lyrics all these years. I would hope that he would write more. I can’t say that he will or not, but that’s a great lyric.

Tollbooth: Talking about solo albums, you did a couple songs from yours here at the acoustic show. Are you planning on doing another solo album at all?

Hindalong: No, I have no plans to do another solo record, but I had no plans of doing one in the first place. Somebody just approached me about doing it. I write songs alone, and I got the courage to do that a couple years ago. I went out to do some live gigs, but I’m terrified to do live gigs with just a guitar and me. It created a great deal of anxiety. I had a couple gigs that went okay and a couple that didn’t. I enjoy being behind the scenes. I love playing the drums, and also being in the studio with other bands, helping them to do what they do. I don’t have a need to get out and be the frontman. I’m not that great at it, and it’s very terrifying for me. So I don’t think I’ll do another one.

Looking Back, Advice
Tollbooth: You’ve been in the industry for a long time. Do you have any regrets about things you’ve done?

Hindalong: I’m certainly not bitter, if that’s what you mean. It’s wonderful, all the relationships that are intact after all these years. There are times you get frustrated. There are times you get mad. But we’ve kept things intact. I’m not bitter. Yeah, we’ve had a lot of disappointment, and you wish for a lot more commercial success, but at this point in my life, I feel like what happened was supposed to happen. Personally, yeah, I have a lot of regrets, as far as things I’ve done and said; my behavior. But tomorrow’s a new day. Living in the light each day. This is a new day.

Tollbooth: Do you have any advice for up-and-coming musicians who might want to get involved in the Christian music industry?

Hindalong: Don’t quit your day job. I don’t really have any advice to them, because they’re gonna pursue their course, but I’d like to advise all women out there don’t marry a Christian rock guy. You can marry a lot better. Marry a doctor or a lawyer, someone who’s gonna make a living.

Production Credits
Tollbooth: You’ve done a lot of production;. Do you have a favorite experience?

Hindalong: There are things that you really enjoy doing, and there are things that you love the outcome. My mind kind of rattles at that thought.

The thing I’m proudest of, and there are several, but one would be Christine Glass, Love and Poverty. No one heard it. It sold probably the least of almost anything I’ve ever produced, and it is absolutely beautiful. I’m very proud of it.

Common Children was as good a band as any band I’ve worked with. Marc Byrd is one of my best friends. I’m really proud of both albums, Skywire and Delicate Fade. I think Delicate Fade is a masterpiece.

I’m proud of Mercury, with Prayer Chain, sorting that situation out and coming up with that kind of album.

Very proud of At the Foot of the Cross, especially volume one. Very harmonious, very good time, very good for us all spiritually and in our relationships with ourselves. I think the reason that, after doing that, that I’ve been compelled to continue doing worship music is what it did for me personally, drawing me to the source of my faith, drawing me back to the Scripture and focusing on Christ. It’s good for me in my walk. So I’m really proud of those At the Foot of the Cross records and really happy that I did them.

 I’m sure I’m missing out. I love Luxury. I did Amazing and Thank You, their first record. Those guys are great. I’m sure I’m missing some things. I’ve done about thirty bands. It’s a bit of a wash. Am I missing something really important?

Writing
Tollbooth: Don’t want to offend anybody! On the new album, you’re not doing as many love songs, and you’re not doing as much stuff you’re known for. You’re doing more worship songs. You’ve got the remake of “Beautiful Scandalous Night,” “Mercy Lives Here,”  and “Flowing Over Me.”

Hindalong: I think it’s pretty similar. I think we’ve always had that integration, with the exception of Kissers and Killers, which really went in a love song direction, and Speckled Bird. That period. I think it’s very similar to Circle Slide. Circle Slide was intensely Christian and spiritual, but also dealing with romance and love.

The new record is warmer than any other record, because I think that we’re in a good place. We’re growing up a little bit. This whole lifestyle perpetuates adolescence, and here we are, forty, finally starting to mature a little bit and value things. It reflects where we are, which is in a pretty good place spiritually, emotionally, and relationship-wise. But I like to think it’s integrated with Christian themes, and weird, bizarre themes. It’s reality. Tension is reality. If there’s no tension in music, then I don’t think it’s reflecting honest emotion, honest feeling. I like to think that The Choir really inspires people, and moves people because it reflects the reality of life. I hope that tension is there. I think it is.

Tollbooth: One of my favorite songs on the new record is “Shiny Floor,” but it’s a weird one. Can you explain it at all?

Hindalong: I don’t know. I haven’t explained it yet. It’s obvious it’s not literal. Yeah, I spilt on somebody’s floor. But like I said, I wrote all the lyrics in two days. So I spilt on somebody’s nice floor and wiped it up with my sleeve, and that was in my mind. It’s probably about not ruffling anybody’s feathers. Musically, a lot of the time, with The Choir, because we’re left of center a little bit, we often felt like we were bothering somebody. I often had to call record store chains to explain the lyrics, to apologize or qualify them.

Tollbooth: [incredulous] Really?

Hindalong: We were always bothering somebody. Don’t want to spill anything on your shiny floor. I’m the kind of person that you can be yourself around. You could take a hammer and hit my car with it, put a big dent in it. I don’t care. I don’t have very much value of material things, and I’m not very judgmental. I like being around people like that so I can be myself and not have to walk on eggshells. So it’s just that emotion. It was a clever idea and I went on and on with it, and it’s just ridiculous.

Tollbooth: Another one of my favorites is “Cherry Bomb.” Is that about one of your daughters?

SH: It kind of encompasses all of them. I started out thinking about Shane, Derri’s youngest. She’s a cute little cherub; a cherub-faced force. We got a lot of these little girls, they just come in, and they’re a whole lot of trouble in your world. They’re just wonderful. You love them more than anything else, but they are forces. And so I ended up kind of combining. There are things about my older daughter, Emily, who’s twelve, there are things about Shane. It’s sort of like a mixture of the little kids in our lives that we have to deal with.

Tollbooth: I kind of saw “Cherry Bomb” as sequel to “Wide Eyed Wonder Girl,” almost.

Hindalong: Sure. The first verse refers to Emily, who is Wide Eyed Wonder Girl. I started off trying to write it about Shane, the little one, but I couldn’t help but mix up stuff about my daughter, because that’s who I know better.

Tollbooth: What did the yellow skies in the song “Yellow Skies” represent? What was that song about?

Hindalong: Oh, just good times. Happiness. Joy. Sunny days.

Tollbooth: Usually, when I think of yellow skies, I think of a tornado.

Hindalong: Well, not in this case. Just sunny days. Not rain.

Tollbooth: How about “Weather Girl”?

Hindalong: Weather Girl”? Just sexual temptation. Just people in your life who are tantalizing, and exciting, and dangerous. And that temptation that all of us are vulnerable to. You’ve gotta watch it all your life. If you’ve been married twenty years, or if you’re single, you know what I mean? That’s what that’s about.

Tollbooth: Alright, well, I think we’re done. Thank you!