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The Reverend Dorian Baxter, a.k.a. Elvis Priestley
The Rock 'n Role Model Interview: Part One
By psychologist, Dr. Bruce L. Thiessen, a.k.a. Dr. B.L.T.
Featuring questions by supporting authors:
Evelyn D. Velasco, Jasmine Young, Gordon Hartman
Of Chapman University, Sacramento and
Holly Macho, Vikki Lopez, and Cheli Shelmire
Of Chapman University, Travis Air Force Base
The Reverend Dorian Baxter is to Elvis what Ron Gross is to Socrates. Ron Gross, who often sports a toga and a pair of Socratic sandals, is a human bridge from Greek philosophy to contemporary, vital, philosophical dialogue. Dorian Baxter, an Anglican minister and Elvis impressionist who often sports the trademark Elvis jumpsuit, is a human bridge from religious tradition to contemporary, vital religious expression. Each has adopted a distinctive persona or archetypal character in order to bring their teachings and their philosophies of life to life.
Both men, through their scholarly merits and protean personal accomplishments have earned the right to perch themselves in an ivory tower and make lofty pronouncements. Instead, to borrow the song title of a classic Doobie Brothers tune, they are “Takin' it To the Streets.”
Though he may strike some as a desultory madman, Ron Gross is the author of at least 20 scholarly books, including his latest, "Socrates' Way: Seven Master Keys to Using Your Mind to the Utmost." Dressed as Socrates, the tortured philosopher who spawned Plato, arguably the greatest philosopher of all times, Gross travels across the country, reviving Socratic discussions of self-knowledge, the essence of truth, questioning and openly challenging authority, and the virtue and merit associated with the pursuit of universal principles.
Rather than engaging in recondite Socratic dialogues about the merits of questioning authority, however, Reverend Baxter, a Toronto-based minister, is questioning and challenging that very authority on an even more active level; through his unapologetic adoption and incorporation of the personality and music of Elvis Presley into his gospel message. And though he has not yet been forced to ingest poison (a fate Socrates is said to have faced with unutterable courage), he has had his “Blue Suede Shoes” stepped long enough and hard enough to understand the laws of cause and effect in very real terms.
I learned of Reverend Baxter, a.k.a. Elvis Priestley, in an article by Janet Kornblum that appeared in a recent edition of USA Today. His message, combined with his rather unorthodox method of delivery, immediately struck me as vigorously dynamic. Although I soon became aware that I was standing in the same line for a prospective Priestley interview as representatives of NBC, People Magazine, and hundreds of major newspapers throughout the world, Priestley accepted my call and the Rock 'n Role Model interview for Phantom Tollbooth was set up. Due to his burgeoning celebrity status, I pictured being hung up on or treated like the unknown, obscure writer that I am. Much to my surprise, he did not hang up and I would not have to hang out at Heartbreak Hotel. But until he sang a few lines of his "altar'd" cover of Blue Suede Shoes well into the interview, his British accent, charm, playful wit, and cultured, polite manner fooled me into thinking I was speaking with the renowned actor Michael Cane. I was also fooled when he began singing. I could have sworn it was Presley, not Priestley. The verisimilitude was uncanny.
As an ardent adherent of the Christian existentialist philosophy of Paul Tillich, I am more than disinclined to subscribe to the notion of reincarnation or the transmigration of the soul—a centerpiece of the Dion-Orphic religion of pre-civilized society. Although this doctrine was "reincarnated" in ancient Greek philosophers such as Pythagoras, Empedocles, Plato and even rears its recurrent head in modern philosophers like Schopenhauer and J.M.E. Taggart, I, like the apostle Paul and Paul Tillich, my contemporary, believe there are only two births; one physical, and one spiritual. Yet as strongly entrenched in my faith as I feel that I am, at the moment Priestley sang, I was strangely drawn towards the transmigration notion, if only for a moment. Forgive me, Lord! Though ultimately I did not lose my religion, the temptation to become like one of the medieval Cathari or Gnostic heretics of the Christian faith grew as Priestley spoke and I found myself enraptured by the profound and mysterious ways in which God was so conspicuously working in his life. The thought of burning at the stake or being stoned to death brought me back in line with a more orthodox view. After all, I've always wanted to disabuse Bob Dylan of the notion that “Everybody Must Get Stoned.”
But if there ever was a “Once Blind, Twice Born” man as capable and as divinely appointed to reawaken the slumbering scores of saints from their spiritual slumber, it was, and is, the Reverend Dorian Baxter, a.k.a. Elvis Priestley. Elvis Presley may have called for “A Little Less Conversation,” but this Rock 'n Role Model interview/encounter called for just a little bit more. Listen in and you'll understand why.
Dr. B.L.T.: Good evening Reverend Baxter, do you mind if I call you Elvis?
Dr. B.L.T.: O.K. First of all, I'd like to congratulate you on being officially inducted into the Rock 'n Role Model Hall of Flame.
Elvis: Oh, my goodness!
Dr. B.L.T.: Yes, well, let me take a moment to explain what that's all about.
Dr. B.L.T.: Well, it's a tradition that started with the first interviewee, Barry McGuire. In order to be approached about being one of my interviewees, you must have exhibited signs that you are a true Rock 'n Role Model. A Rock 'n Role Model is someone who can be looked up to as a role model for making a significant positive contribution to popular culture and for using music as an artistic catalyst for ameliorating human suffering. In short, it is someone who is making the world a better place through music or another worthy form of expression. You've been identified as such a person.
Elvis: My goodness, well, I'm very honored.
Dr. B.L.T.: Yes, and now you ready to accept the torch?
Elvis: I am.
Dr. B.L.T.: O.K. Great, I will also be sending you a certificate that formally documents your official status as a Hall of Flame inductee.
Dr. B.L.T.: Now, going back to our analogy of fire, students in my History and Systems of Psychology class at Chapman University in Sacramento, several of whom contributed to this interview with questions of their own, recently studied a pre-Socratic philosopher by the name of Heraclitus. If Heraclitus, a profoundly influential pre-Socratic philosopher were alive today, his favorite song would undoubtedly be “Hunka Hunka Burnin' Love,” for he believed that everything in the universe, including love, was made up of fire. My first question to you is this: How do you reconcile your burning passion for the music and archetype of Elvis Presley, The King of Rock 'n Roll with your passion for serving the King of Kings?
Elvis: It has actually been a very, very obvious and a good connection, because whenever I read about Elvis as a young boy, I very seldom read anything where he didn't mention God or Jesus Christ. That was the main reason that he enjoyed the success that he was enjoying. I was particularly moved as a young boy of nine when I read in a magazine where he spoke of God's hands touching him and lifting him into this wonderful, wonderful realm of popularity and this tidal wave of success. But never once did he say that it was him who had done it. And so I think that for me, it was a very, very natural connection because Elvis always gave credit to the Lord Jesus Christ.
And I think the incident involving the show in Vegas where they sent out the dancing girls and they all had the flashing letters that spelled out Elvis, You're the King is very telling. In his gentle and inimitable way, he stopped the whole procedure. He thanked them in his own way for the sentiments by which they were actuated, and then he said, "Now I would ask, "Please, don't ever call me The King again." He said, "There is one king, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ." And I have found in sharing these things with the general public, that they're not only moved, but many of them are drawn into the gospel of Jesus Christ because of Elvis.
Dr. B.L.T.: Well, that's really fascinating. It's something I was truly unaware of.
Elvis: Yes, and I think that something of significance to me was the conversation I had with Rick Stanley, who of course, is Elvis's stepbrother, and Rick was part of the Memphis mafia so to speak. Rick told me that Elvis was so generous that he gave away way too much money to the members of his entourage and a number of them, including Rick, abused the money by getting involved with elicit drugs. Now, Elvis never touched elicit drugs and was totally against them, but he was, ironically, hopelessly addicted to prescription drugs and the night he died, he came home and Rick was there. Rick told me that Elvis could tell that he, Rick, was high on cocaine, and Elvis looked up at Rick, and these were the words Rick told me that Elvis spoke: Elvis looked into Rick's eyes and said, "Rick, I cannot preach to you." He said "Look at me." And in those days, at that time Elvis's body was shutting down. People thought he was fat, but in fact it was the retention of fluids that was involved.
He said, "Look at what I've allowed Satan, the devil, to do to me. My only hope now is the Lord Jesus Christ," he said as he pointed up to the sky. Then he took his finger, and he pushed it into Rick's chest and said, "Rick, you have to get off that cocaine. Jesus Christ is your only real hope too." Then he turned, lumbered up stairs and Rick said that four hours later he heard a thud, and he found Elvis dead. And he said he was so devastated he wanted to give up the cocaine for Elvis's sake, yet he just couldn't. And six months later he was ready to end his life, and he didn't tell me how, but he said that just before he was ready to do what he was going to do to end his life, he hollered, not audibly, but in the still, small voice within him, he heard Elvis's voice repeating itself over in his mind, "Rick, you have to get off that cocaine. Jesus Christ is your only real hope." He fell on his knees, cried out to Jesus to deliver him, does not even remember how he got home apparently, but the desire for cocaine was gone. And the amazing thing about Rick was his gratitude was so high that he went back to school for three years, got his B.A.; went back to school for another three years and got a Masters of Divinity like I have. He was ordained I believe with the Assemblies of God, and Rick Stanley, by his own admission, has led hundreds of thousands to the Lord Jesus Christ because of Elvis.
Dr. B.L.T. Wow, that's really a beautiful ending to the story! That brings me to my next question. Heraclitus believed the universe to be made up of fire because, in his view, everything is in a state of constant flux. Kind of like that David Bowie song, “Changes.” Everything is relative in Heraclitus's world. How about you? In your worldview, or weltenshuaung as it is known in certain elitist, snobbish circles, is there any room for absolutes, or is everything relative?
Elvis: Well, I think that I tend to be extremely Pauline (referring to the teachings of the apostle Paul) in my philosophy and in my theology, largely because the Anglican Church that I was christened and confirmed in was extremely Pauline. I had the honor of being confirmed and baptized by the first black Bishop on Mombasa Island in Kenya and this Bishop was so passionately committed to the Lord Jesus Christ that one could not help but be affected by this magnificant man's faith. I think that he got started in my Pauline view of things and that has continued. I tend to believe strongly in the scripture in Ephesians chapter six, verses 10-16 about putting on the whole armor of God, and the conclusion of that scripture says, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers, and against virtual wickedness in high places, wherefore we take the whole armor of God unto us." And I guess for me, there is this dualism: There is the power of goodness, which is far stronger than any evil, but because of the propensity and the tendency of mankind towards evil, there appears to be an uneven struggle going on.
I think that this whole view is summed up best in a story that was once told to me of a Native-Canadian Indian gentleman who was six-foot-five and had been the local terror in the bars and had beat many people up, and a young minister was sent up into that part of the province. The minister felt that he must go to this individual's house and at least tell him about Jesus. And he knocked on the door, and this man came to the door with a baseball bat and so terrorized him, that he retreated rapidly, jumped in his car and drove away.
But each week the minister felt constrained to try again and as he would do that, the outcome would repeat itself, and this is a story based on true facts. He got to the point where he would knock on the door out of obedience for what he felt God was telling him to do, but he would immediately run, and jump in the car. And as he would run and jump into the car, he realized that there was nobody chasing him anymore. And there was this large, Native-Canadian-Indian gentleman, who looked very rugged and rough and hair all over the place, and he was beckoning the minister into his house. Now the minister had a problem. Did he dare trust him? He didn't know. But, trusting the Lord, he went in and, wonder of wonders, this gentleman did find Christ through the minister. And the story goes that, in fact, the minister, about a year later was posted elsewhere, and tried to keep in touch with the Native gentleman, but the Native gentleman did not reply to any of the letters. So two years later, he flew back in to the Parish and the first person who wanted to visit him was this Native gentleman who gave his life to Christ. They found each other and they hugged one another and the minister asked, "Now how is your Christian walk? How is your life with the Lord?" And the large, Native-American man put his head in his hands and waited for the longest time and he looked up and said to the minister, "I have discovered," he said, “that in my heart are two dogs fighting for control of my life. One is a dog of darkness, and it represents my old nature before I found Christ. The other is a dog of light. It represents my new life in the Lord Jesus Christ. And he said those dogs are locked into mortal combat every day.” Then the minister said, "Tell me, which dog is winning." And there was a long pause, and the native gentleman looked up again and said, "It depends on which dog I feed the most."
I find that this sums it up for me because we are, I believe, locked in war of cosmic proportions in this universe. My feeling is that we must take unto ourselves the whole armor of God. We must be ready to share the gospel and to stand up for what is good, and right, and decent in the eyes of the Lord.
Dr. B.L.T.: Well, you know Freud was very much in tune with that inner conflict. He talked about Thanatos, which was the death instinct, and Eros, which was the life instinct. Those are Greek terms that he used in developing his theory. But Freud rejected Christianity. He believed that religion was for the weak. It ultimately worked to his disadvantage, and that's a gross understatement. So he was very much in tune with the nature of the conflict, but he did not have access to the light to wholly illuminate him and to lead him into all truth. He was able to discover some very important psychological truths, but he was unable to go beyond a certain level because of his closed mind as it pertained to spirituality.
Yet when you followed this path, a certain orthodox core within the Anglican Church rejected you. Isn't that right?
Elvis: Well, actually, there was really only two, and then that did spread to the college of Bishops in Toronto, but what I used to say, in keeping with the thrust of what we're speaking of here, is that I have and always have had a high view and a very strong view of holy scripture. As you know, Paul says, in scripture, that "I have become all things so that I may lead some to the glory of the gospel of Christ." And to me, I suppose with tongue and cheek to some degree, I have said, "Well, if that involves, for me, becoming this Elvis Priestley persona, then so be it.”
Dr. B.L.T.: Why do you think that is certain religious communities, they seem to be more reluctant than in artistic communities, to accept such forms of expression?
Elvis: That's a good point. I recently had the distinct honor of being asked by a Christian production company to audition for and later play the part of William Booth in an audio drama of his life. As you may know, William Booth founded the Salvation Army.
Dr. B.L.T.: Yes.
Elvis: Well that project was just completed and the CDs—there are three—were just released about two weeks ago. And by playing the part, I found that there were a number of opportunities to really get into the mind of William Booth. Linking that with what you're saying though, I came across an interesting discovery in a discussion with the owner of the production company behind the project. He was also behind the production of a particular Bible study for groups do use in conjunction with CDs. After the Bible study was over, he asked the group, "What would be a modern version of what Booth was doing when he went out and rented a dance hall to have church meetings in?" Of course that sort of thing was unheard during Booth's time. Now I guess the publicity had just broken across Canada and the U.S. about the church I had the honor and privilege of bringing into being, and low and beyond, they said, "This Elvis Priestley fellow—he would surely be a good example of that." And at that point in the Bible study, none of them knew that the voice on the CDs was that of Elvis Priestley. Well then he broke the news to the group, and they broke into spontaneous applause. And they later invited me down as the keynote speaker. Now, these are dyed-in-the-wool gray-haired Salvation Army officers.
Dr. B.L.T.: Now that is very interesting and exciting.
Elvis: Yes, and what I also find interesting Bruce, is that the Salvation Army is documented in Graceland as being Elvis's favorite charity.
Dr. B.L.T.: Is that right? Well, it all fits together, doesn't it?
Dr. B.L.T.: Now Elvis, I'd like to go back to the notion of fire as an element that is constant only in its changes, I'd like to focus on three transforming stages in your life. The first was your birth. Where were you born and raised and how have your geographic origins and early childhood experiences shape the person you are today?
Elvis: I was born on the Muslim island of Mombasa in Kenya. It's actually a British colony. I was born on the 3rd of April, 1950. I think being born out there was of great significance to the way I grew up because every two years, my father, who was the port engineer for all of East Africa, was re-numerated by the British government and the Kenya government at the same time. They paid for the whole family to go back every six months from Britain and I think that greatly broadened my perspective on life.
Dr. B.L.T.: Now I'd like to focus upon your conversion to Christianity. I know that you are a phenomenon I refer to in a song as “Once Blind, Twice Born.” How has your life changed since you were born again?
Elvis: That happened on June 5, 1972. It was a little boy in my grade four class. I was a school teacher. And his name was Paul, which is nice for me because I've always been very Pauline in my theology. The scripture tells us that "even a child shall lead them." I was twenty-two years of age, and without going into all the detail, this young fellow invited me to church and within a period of time, I was challenged to read the scripture. In the scripture I found the evidence of the gospel of Christ that I determined to be irrefutable. The reason I identified so very clearly with the concept of being born again was… A number of our mainline denominations tend to shy away from that term, but it's right in the Book of Common Prayer. It does speak of Christ leading us to the point of being born again. So even among the mainstream denominations, it is a very real part of the doctrine of Christianity. I think, for me, this involves coming to the realization that there is indeed a God and that God has revealed his will to mankind through his word which "became flesh and dwelt among us." The Lord Jesus Christ, enables us this day to tap into that power, purpose and presence, through the through the third person of the trinity—the Holy Spirit. The realization of all of that is so magnificent—so life changing in terms of one's perception that it is as if one were born again into an entirely different headspace. Suddenly death holds no terror, and life is bursting with meaning. No wonder Jesus said, "I have come that you may have life and have it abundantly."
Dr. B.L.T.: Yes, that's wonderful news. Now, finally, I'd like to focus on your third birth in a sense—your transformation into the persona of Elvis Priestly. How did that come about and how has it changed your life? What opportunities have come your way that might allow you to go further with your creative ministry?
Elvis: Well that did change my life to some degree as a young boy, because it gave me such a burning, burning desire, or interest in music. Prior to Elvis's music, I had no interest in music really. I was five years of age and I was playing with a fire truck.
My father told me that the first time the music of Elvis heard in my home I dropped the fire truck and stood there mesmerized, starring into the hi-fi and just didn't move until it was over. And I think what happened that day was that I met, in a very significant way, the power that can be transmitted through music. I asked my dad for an Elvis record and he gave me one, and from that point on, whenever I heard an Elvis song, I would try to sing like Elvis. And that has lasted until now, when I am 52. That's been forty-seven years. The change that it brought to my life was very significant for me. Even though I wouldn't become a Christian until age 22, my exposure to Elvis inculcated in me an appreciation for the raw goodness in life.
Now I know he wasn't perfect, but I was deeply loyal to Elvis. I remember when I first arrived in Canada, trying to make money to put myself through college, I worked on a sod farm, and as we worked, we would play music. Other workers were into hard rock bands like Iron Butterfly and others, and I would play only Elvis. There was a lot of derision over my choice of music, but I would not let that deter me. I have always been loyal to Elvis. Even the Bishops' criticism of me has not budged me an inch. It taught me to basically try and understand the nature of Elvis's commitment to the Lord. Once I became a believer, I became overwhelmed with the depth, the height, and the breadth of Elvis's spirituality. I hadn't realized that he did as many gospel songs as he did rock 'n roll and so when that happened, it was like everything just came together for me. I have had a few ups and downs in my life that I would have never come through if I had not had Elvis's gospel music pounding away.
Dr. B.L.T.: And now, your incorporation of the Elvis persona into your ministry has led a lot of people to approach you with new and exciting opportunities.
Elvis: Yes. I have some remarkable developments now. I've been invited to be the Chaplain of Beale Street in Memphis. And they’re very sensitive to my needs as well. They said that they would fly me down every two weeks so I can come back up here to minister to the people at this wonderful church that we have here. We're averaging between 250 and 300 people every Sunday. It's the Church of Christ the King Graceland. The full name is Church of Christ the King Graceland Independent Anglican Church of Canada, but again, the name came out of Elvis's response to those chorus girls—"There's only one King and that king is Christ."
Also, I’ve just learned that I will become the new Archbishop of York sometime in March.
Dr. B.L.T.: Congratulations! That’s remarkable. Yes, and I heard about you and your new church through the remarkable article in USA Today authored by Janet Kornblum. Since that time, you've also been approached by NBC?
Elvis: NBC just did a two-hour filming session.
Dr. B.L.T.: And you've been approached by People magazine?
Elvis: People magazine has done a significant article on me. They tell me that it will be released sometime within the next month. Then CBS will be doing a story at the end of this month and then Vision TV, a Canadian group, will be doing a documentary this coming Sunday. And last Sunday, along with NBC, the largest television company in Korea flew in a team of four videographers and they followed me nearly non-stop for 48 hours on Saturday and Sunday. They put together a truly remarkable video. They even followed me into the hospital where I sang to those in wheel chairs dressed in my Elvis jumpsuit to cheer up the sick and the dying.
Dr. B.L.T.: Excellent! We'll
really be looking forward to hearing and seeing more of you through those
avenues that you've mentioned. Now in addition to all of this, you are
also a father of two children.
Nevertheless, through your Elvis persona, you have actually built a bridge between religious doctrine and contemporary culture. Though many try to tear down that bridge, can you tell me what inspires you to persevere in the face of virulent criticism, what motivates you to continue working on that bridge?
Elvis: Well I think the most important part of it for me is the abiding sense of the Lord's presence and the sense that what I am doing is being done with a very sincere heart. I know that the only reason I have done any of this is for the glory of God—to bring people to the knowledge of the saving grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. I think that in that sense, the criticism that has been leveled at me has been actually built on false premises. For example, the notion that I do weddings in a jump suit, which I don't, or that I do funerals in a jump suit. I've never done that. I know that I'm on firm ground there.
The other thing is that I've developed a five-point sermon based on the letters E.L.V.I.S. The E is for everlasting life and I support that theologically. The L—for the agape Love, the love of Jesus Christ. The V is for the Vitality of the father, the son, and the Holy Ghost. I—for the Inspiration that God gives every day and then the S is for Salvation and the shed blood of the lamb. I've talked to traditional Anglican ministers and they've told me they've used the Elvis formula to cheer themselves up and to remind of the power and the presence of the son of the living God in their lives.
Dr. B.L.T.: I love that. It's got that pop punch to it, yet it reflects a great deal of theological depth.
Elvis: Well, thank you, or I should probably say, “Thank you very much,” (this later phrase of gratitude was communicated in his Elvis voice).
Dr. B.L.T. O.K. Elvis, for the purpose of this rock 'n role model interview, I've asked students in my History and Systems of Psychology class in Sacramento and my Motivation and Emotion students at Travis Air force Base to follow your "rock 'n role model" and take on alternative personas of their own. In the case of my Chapman University students, they're going to borrow the identities of philosophers and theorists of yore, and, in certain cases, their contemporaries—all who have significantly shaped the face of modern psychology. In most cases, this will involve imaginary time travel—a magic realism technique I have been known to apply in many instances the classroom. Right now we're going to go way back—in some cases long before the days when Elvis flouted tradition with his signature style and attitude. Are you prepared to take on some of their questions at this time?
Dr. B.L.T.: O.K. now it wasn't feasible to include all of their questions, but all of my students formulated questions for you. Then each student voted on the top three questions. Of course they weren't allowed to vote for their own question, as that could be considered self-serving. Let's begin with questions from students in my History and Systems of Psychology course at Chapman University in Sacramento. This one's from Gordon as Carl Jung:
Gordon: Hi Elvis, for the purpose of this rock 'n role model interview, I've become Carl Jung. My favorite Elvis song is "Follow that Dream," because I believe our goals for the future affect our current behaviors. That is, our unconscious minds work to reach goals for the future that we have established in our present day. My question is this: Do you believe it is your conscious or your unconscious mind that has helped you follow your dream?
Elvis: That's a good question. I would have to say that it's a combination of both—predominantly my conscious mind. I think that having found the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal savior, I'm never without the sense of His presence and always, I've very conscious of lifting to Him every day and consciously asking Him to guide and direct me. One of my favorite Elvis gospel songs is, “Lead Me, Guide Me Along the Way:” "For if you lead me, I cannot stray." Jesus said, "You have not, because you ask not." And I would have to say that predominantly, I've made a conscious effort, not only to ask Him on a daily basis, but also, in Thessalonians we're told, "In all things, give thanks. For this is the will of God concerning us." So I've consciously sought to ask him, and I've consciously made every effort at every waking moment to thank Him, to praise Him, for every moment of my life.
Dr. B.L.T. That's a wonderful
response Elvis. Now, this one is from Jasmine as Sigmund Freud:
Elvis: That's a very good
question and I would have to say that very definitely, I have identified,
significantly I think, with what Elvis was to prove on a number of levels.
Unlike Elvis Presley, the opposition for me has not been with everyday
people. Elvis's opposition was led by some of the more conservative church
groups. I think in my case, it's really just a few Bishops that have disapproved.
However, that has filtered down from time to time, to certain people in
the laity. And I think that I have definitely experienced the sense that
they are somewhat like the Salmon swimming upstream. But to conclude the
thought here, I would have to say that Elvis himself—just his name and
the love that people have for him—have been responsible for this interview
and many of the things that have happened in the last month. Elvis has
been my strongest support. I'm now finding worldwide approval. CBS told
me that I was on the front page of 5,850 newspapers around the world. Whenever
I read such an article, it's overwhelmingly in favor of what I'm doing.
I think that's because it's connected to Elvis and everybody loves Elvis.
Dr. B.L.T.: That makes sense to me. This next one is from Evelyn as a female Robert Sternberg—let's call her Roberta Sternberg.
Evelyn: Hi, I am Roberta Sternberg and I've spent time researching what love is and understanding what works to create lasting love relationships. I am fond of Elvis' song “Love Me Tender” and I appreciate your talent and your ability to attract people to God with your Elvis ministry.
In terms of the song I mentioned, some of the lyrics are, "Love me tender, love me sweet. Never let me go. You have made my life complete, and I love you so."
Can you tell me how this relates to God's love and how does that relate to love between people in relationships?
Elvis: Very good question from Roberto. These are all equally good, and powerful questions. I'm just hoping that I'm doing a little bit of justice to them. This one in particular is best answered through another song. It was a gospel song for young people that included the words, "God's love is so wonderful, God's love is so wonderful, so high you can't get over it, so wide you can't get around it, low you can't get under it." I have seen in Elvis Presley repeated actions that could only have come from the indwelling Holy Spirit in the heart of Elvis Presley. On countless occasions, he took off ten-, twenty-, thirty thousand dollar rings and gave them to people that were poverty-stricken. And he made sure that they got the money for those rings. At times, he gave away Cadillacs. There were times that he, in concert after concert, with no profit at all, but rather, the proceeds going to help disabled children that were without families, and diseased people. These were selfless acts that can only come from one who is indwelled by the son of the living God and the power and presence of the Holy Spirit. So I would have to say that Elvis, when he sang gospel music, even when he sang the song “Love Me Tender”—through all of that, you see the agape love of the Lord Jesus Christ being played out in his life. He never lost sight of everything that he had, everything that he owned being a gift from God. And unlike many of us, he never lost sight of the giver. He may have in fact, been gifted more than many others, but he was always cognisant of The Giver. That is why he is so revered today.
Dr. B.L.T.: Thank you. O.K., now these ones are from students in my Motivation and Emotions class. I trust that you're highly motivated to answer them. Let's begin with a question from Cheli as a female version of Gestalt theorist Kurt Lewin:
Cheli: Hi Elvis, for the purpose of this rock 'n role model interview, I've adopted the name of Kurt Lewin. My favorite Elvis song is “Viva Las Vegas.” I know you have performed weddings and you have married lots of couples. My cognitive understanding of motivation is one in which people are portrayed as goal-seekers, either approaching or avoiding something: It is "need" that motivates them; needs produce intentions. My question is this: What intentions do you feel love generates when two people are motivated to get married?
Elvis: Well, I think it's a powerful question and I love the way that it's been phrased. I'm very impressed. When you think of love generating intentions, what immediately comes to mind, particularly as she's referencing “Viva Las Vegas” and the whole Elvis motif, is the fact that Elvis was very quick to point out the fact that God is love. And that love knows no bounds. So I would venture to say that one, in this setting, could take it a step further and say, What intentions does God generate when two people decide they want to get married? Because God is love. God, who is love, generates within us intentions that flow from scriptures like I Corinthians chapter 13 where we see that love keeps no record of wrong. The agape love of Jesus that Elvis referred to in so many ways, generates unselfish intentions.
It is this kind of love that "believes all things, bears all things…" and so the intentions generated by this kind of love are intentions of goodness in the highest degree—goodness that places the needs of the other above the needs of the one who is having these intentions generated out of his or her heart. And so I believe that the intentions generated out of this type of love are not bound by time, but rather, they transcend time. As such, they kiss eternity. They end up bathing the two individuals concerned in the unbelievable, unfathomable riches of the love of the Lord Jesus Christ. This enables the man or woman in question to be absolutely engulfed in a future that is not just one of intentions, but these intentions are then realized as this couple becomes intertwined in the love of the Lord Jesus Christ.
As they go through, let's say the next 50 years of marriage and beyond, their love actually metamorphoses into an all-encompassing love. So whatever love initially attracted them, when you compare it to the product once the intentions have been realized—it's like night and day.
Dr. B.L.T.: O.K., let's move on to a question by Holly as female representation of the father of modern psychology, Rene Descartes:
Holly: Hi Elvis, for the purpose of this Rock 'n Role model interview, my name is Rene Descartes. I lived from 1596 to 1650. I have several favorite Elvis songs. My first one is “Follow that Dream.” While in Bohemia in 1619, I had three dreams that defined for me my career as a scientist and a philosopher seeking knowledge for the benefit of humanity. In my book Meditations on Philosophy (in which I proved the existence of God and the immortality of the soul) I began with methodic doubt, rejecting as though false all types of knowledge by which I was ever deceived. Let me explain I believe knowledge from sensory experience is untrustworthy because people sometimes mistake one thing for another, as with mirages, something you might find near “Viva Las Vegas.”
Next, knowledge based on authority should be set aside because even experts are sometimes wrong, like Reverend Ferris who might just have a case of “Suspicious Minds.” Finally, knowledge may be illusory because it comes from dreams or insanity or from a demon able to deceive men by making them think that they are experiencing the real world when they are not, like the “Devil in Disguise.” I find certainty in the intuition that when I am thinking, even if deceived, I exist: Cogito, ergo sum (Latin: I think, therefore I am). This would explain why I am a big fan of the Elvis song, “My Way.” I applaud you for doing things your way-- the way you feel is best to serve God. My question to you is this: If God exists in the hearts and minds of the faithful because of the essence of their faith, but does not exist in the hearts and minds of the unfaithful because of the essence of their lack of faith, then does God truly exist at all and if so, how so?
Elvis: Very powerful question! And it has ramifications of eternal significance obviously, because we're talking about the saved and the unsaved. We're talking about the lost and the found. I love the reference to “Follow that Dream.” The words of Martin Luther King come to my mind when gave that amazing speech, “I Have a Dream.” He courageously followed that dream to his death. And I believe that Martin Luther King's soul went to be with the Lord, so in that sense he followed that dream all the way through.
When I try to answer this particular question, I'm drawn into the scripture, John 3: 17. Everybody is familiar with the scripture found in John 3:16, For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever shall believe on him shall not parish, but shall have everlasting life. This verse is for those that make that choice and recognize God and God recognizes them by faith. The only trouble is that this can leave a rather negative implication for those who are left out because they have not necessarily believed.
Now I love the next verse, which is very seldom used, but I use it more than John 3:16. John 3:17 says: "For God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world, but that through Him, the whole world might be saved." And so to directly answer this question, I would say that the existence of God is proven by virtue of the inexhaustible riches of God's grace to believer and non-believer alike. This verse, to me, clearly indicates that the grace of God has not only been offered, but given to the entire world. The sins of the past, the presence and the future have been paid for once for all, when Christ died on the cross and rose again, destroying forever death. If I were to illustrate John 3:17, I would use this analogy.
Suppose a preacher was preaching
to a crowd of five thousand people and the preacher had a great deal of
money. What if that preacher announced to the crowd that he was going to
pay for them all to go to the Bahamas for a two-week vacation? What if
they only had to go to the LA airport to pick up the tickets? Now if only
five out of that crowd were to go and pick up the tickets, the preacher's
bank account would not show that he paid for five tickets. It would show
that he paid for five thousand tickets. And yet the other remaining people
would not have availed themselves to the gracious gift of the preacher.
Those people would be like the people who have not availed themselves to
God's gift of grace. God's account shows that the price has been paid for
all with God's mercy and grace. I don't know of a better way to answer
Elvis: I'm ready. I feel very privileged that you people are entrusting me with these questions.
Dr. B.L.T.: O.K. This question, the final one from my erudite students, is from Vikki as theorist Julian Rotter.
Vikki: Hello Elvis, before we begin this interview, allow me to introduce myself. My name is Julian Rotter. I want to commend you for having the strength to challenge tradition by taking on the role of Elvis Priestley. I disagree with traditional behaviorism because I believe that people are less likely to take trial and error learning habits into new situations. I believe that people apply what they know about the expectancy and value of rewards from similar situations.
My question is this: Because of your strong internal locus of control, do you have the same degree of success that you did as a "traditional" Anglican Priest now that you have evolved into Elvis Priestley? Are the rewards what you had anticipated? Was it worth losing the support of the Anglican Church? What is your advice to people who want to oppose tradition without any expectations of the outcome or consequences?
Dr. B.L.T.: There are a number of questions packed into that inquiry, so let's begin with the first one, Because of what Vikki has identified as your "strong internal locus of control," do you have the same degree of success now, as Elvis Priestley, that you did in the more traditional Anglican priest role?
Elvis: Well, actually, I have always incorporated the Elvis motif. There is no question about the fact that my success has been in direct proportion to my willingness to embrace the Elvis motif. Whether it's through the E.L.V.I.S. sermon, or through a performance in which I sing “Are You Looking for Trouble,” with the words changes to “Are you Looking for Jesus? You came to the right place…” the congregations have actually expanded from maybe two hundred to ten-,twenty-, thirty-, forty-, even fifty thousand. And the opportunity given to me because of Elvis and his love for the gospel have gone above and beyond my wildest imagination.
More recently, with the film crew from NBC and the film crew from Korea—it was all because of Elvis, not because of Dorian Baxter. They came because of the Elvis Presley and the Elvis Priestley motifs that were being embraced. Now I'm told that the Korean broadcasting people will be showing their documentary film to in access of 350 million people. There was an assessment done that with NBC and CBS, and all the radio and television coverage combined, it looks like when everything comes together over the next few weeks over 2 billion people will have been reached with the gospel because of this new church—The Church of Christ the King Graceland, established here in Canada. It's a long way of answering the question that whatever success I've had as a traditional priest in a traditional church setting pales in comparison to the phenomenal success I've had in my role of Elvis Priestley, there's really no comparison, especially when one measures success according to souls reached for the gospel of Christ.
Dr. B.L.T.: Well, I think you've also answered the second question in which Vikki asked: What about the rewards, are they what you anticipated?
Elvis: Yes, I'd have to say that they're totally unexpected rewards, ranging from just from the gratitude people have expressed to me to the amazing announcement you made to me last night about you inducting me into the Rock 'n Role Model Hall of Flame.
Dr. B.L.T.: Well, I'm glad you got a kick out of that.
Elvis: Yes, it was wonderful. I was very, very moved by it. When Paul talks about the unsearchable riches in scripture, thanks to Elvis, I am experiencing the unsearchable riches of the body of Christ. It is surrounding me, not only with love and support, but actually encouragement and affirmation on a level that I can barely grasp in my mind.
Dr. B.L.T. Well, that kind of brings me to the next part of Vikkie's question: Was all of this worth losing the support of the Anglican Church?
Elvis: Oh, I would say yes, yes and yes again. Not that I take any pleasure in giving the impression that I'm rebelling against church authority, but I have clearly made the decision to rebel against what I believe to be a tyrannical authority adhered to by a select few. What I've been able to do is pray for them and stand up to them. But I try to stand up to them with integrity and in the love of Jesus Christ. I continually offer them an olive branch. Not one of them has ever attended one of my services, so it does not help me to respect them.
Dr. B.L.T. Finally, what is your advice to people who want to oppose tradition without any expectations of the outcome or consequences?
Elvis: Well, first, I would say to Vikki that this is a very valid and significant question. I can only draw from my own experience in answering this. I had exhausted all lenient manner of appeasement first. I did not enter in this in terms of it being an impulsive move. The one rule that comes into play here is to seek to be fair. In Kenya, where I grew up and we used to play Cricket, there was an old saying that said that if something was done unfairly, well that just wasn't Cricket. So I would encourage people to play cricket before they seek to rebel. They need to be totally fair and give every opportunity for people in positions of authority to come to an understanding.
In Isaiah it says, "Come, let us reason together. Though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be whiter than snow." Jesus, in Matthew, said that if you have a problem with your brother then meet him and discuss it first. If you can't have that kind of amicable Christian resolution, by virtue of the fact that one of the parties is just ignoring the problem and refusing to get involved, then, what I have done in the past is prayerfully consider the alternatives. My advice to anyone on such a precipice would be to be prayerful and to know within your own heart that what you're doing is right. Then ever so gently, move forward and take the risk. Then, even if it does end in failure, you'll know that you did what the dictates of your heart told you to do. You will be following the edict that Thoreau followed, “To thine own self be true.” It necessarily follows that one cannot be false to any other man.
Dr. B.L.T.: Well, one of the notions I'm trying to inculcate within my students is the notion that the eternal or timeless wisdom offered by philosophers of yore have applicability, not only to contemporary pop culture, but to the understanding, sorting out, and solving of everyday problems. Over the years, psychology, like the institution of the church has been vulnerable to stagnation. You remind me of not only Elvis, but also people like Little Richard, who seamlessly and with immense intensity and verve, moves from ministerial zeal to rock 'n roll fervor. You are like a fresh stream of water in an otherwise stagnant pond of hackneyed religious ritual. At the same time, you are a bridge between antiquated philosophy, once closely wed to religion, and contemporary culture.
Here's my last question: How does it feel to serve as The King while simultaneously serving the King of Kings?
Elvis: It makes me feel fulfilled in my mission as a priest, as a pastor, as a person who has been commissioned to go into all the world and preach the gospel. I have been able to share with people around the world. I recently did interviews with the BBC and with a similar corporation in Australia, and in Parish. Each interviewer asked me to sing my version of “Blue Suede Shoes,” and before I did, I said, "Keep in mind, that Elvis, the king of rock 'n role worshipped Jesus, the King of Kings…It's one for the father, two for the son, three for the spirit and your life has just begun, you can do anything, but don't turn Jesus away.
(At this point the good reverend broke into his singing voice on the chorus and I was completely blown away): "Jesus is the king of kings. Jesus is the king of kings. Jesus, Jesus, Jesus is the King of Kings." Then he went on to conclude: "I feel totally fulfilled in using that phrase, Elvis, the king of rock 'n role worshipped Jesus, the King of Kings."
I complemented and thanked him for sharing his voice and his version of “Blue Suede Shoes” with me in a manner that gave me chills. Then, as you shall see in the summary, we concluded our rock 'n role model interview and went our separate ways…)
Dr. B.L.T.: Thank you, Reverend Baxter, a.k.a. Elvis Priestley for taking the time to participate in our Rock 'n Role interview. I would like to thank the students of Chapman University who participated with a series of stimulating and thought-provoking questions, and I would like to thank you, Elvis.
Elvis: It is my distinct pleasure and honor.
Dr. B.L.T.: If I may, I'd
like to end by quoting a couple of song lines that you inspired. First,
I would like to say to you: There's soul in your blue suede shoes, Reverend
Baxter. Finally, to the world of Doubting Thomas’s and Doubting Descartes’,
poisoned and paralyzed by the cyanide of cynicism, I'd like to say: Elvis
is Alive and well! Long live the King! All praise and glory to the King